Topic: Diy screen printing help

SCREEN PRINT PEOPLE. please help.i just tried to expsoe my first screen but im having some problems. If i just tried to expose a screen(photo emulsion) and when going to wash off the exposure pretty much the whole screen of emulsion washed off. What am i doing wrong? not enough emulsion on or did i not leave it under the light long enough? any advice would be greatly appriciated. xxx

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Re: Diy screen printing help

three possibilities i can think of --

1. it could be over-exposed (too long under the light, or the light too close)
2. maybe the emulsion's not fully dry before you expose it? (possibly too much used)
3. a problem with the sensitizer (not used at all/ initially mixed with too much water/ not mixed properly into photo emulsion)

Re: Diy screen printing help

i think it could of perhaps been under exposed....i did leave the emulsion to dry for a good 45 mins or so horizontally in a cupboard with a fan turned on. it certainly felt dry but its a possibility. I hope i didnt fuck the sensitizer up. I followed the instructions and the emulsion turned into a dark green colour from blue which should be all good.

I just bought one of those 500watt floodlight bulbs instead of the 250w halogen i used yesterday,im going to try again tomorrow with the floodlight and hopefully it will work. So far ive been using the speedball exposure time guide and it hasnt seemed to of worked. Really hope it works with the new floodlight. If not i think im going to build myself a light box with some 50w florescent tubes. hopefully for now this will work though :S

"Have you paid your due's Jack?".........."Yes Sir, Cheque is in the mail"

My so called "Photography" - www.flickr.com/photos/trashman4130
Dead End Kids - art,books,zines,music and crud- www.deadendkidsuk.blogspot.com

Re: Diy screen printing help

i think there's a fair amount of trial & error in screenprinting, you'll arrive at what works with your set-up soon, i'm sure.

i like to try to prepare two screens at once, so that if the exposure of the first fucks up i can go straight to the second. really dispiriting to have to go right back to the beginning of the process.

edit: did you definitely remember to scrub the the screen with a water + dishwasher powder solution & let it dry before coating it with photo emulsion?

Last edited by homintern (24-01-2010 10:57:08)

Re: Diy screen printing help

oh actually i didnt the first time round. it was a brand new screen and the instructions im going off didnt actually say to do that! interesting... I did use photo emulsion remover to get it off though and warm water. im just trying to secure my new floodlight in at the moment. screens been left for over 48 hours now so im sure its good and ready for some abusing.

Another quick question though. If i get the exposure right and everything goes smooth, can i leave the dregs of the paint on the screen before printing again onto something else? or should the emulsion be exposed well enough to not come off with just water like paint might? thanks a lot for your suggestions so far dude! its greatly appreciated!

"Have you paid your due's Jack?".........."Yes Sir, Cheque is in the mail"

My so called "Photography" - www.flickr.com/photos/trashman4130
Dead End Kids - art,books,zines,music and crud- www.deadendkidsuk.blogspot.com

Re: Diy screen printing help

ok, i think that may have been the problem, then. i make my own (bits of wood from the hardware store, polyester from the fabric shop ... works out at less than £1 a time) & the reason for the dishwasher solution is that it removes some kind of coating on the polyester that prevents the emulsion from sticking. it could be that if you bought a proper screen it had already been done, but it wouldn't hurt to try next time.

all you do is dissolve half a dishwasher tablet in half a pint of water & scrub the screen both sides with a nylon brush, then leave it to dry. if you don't have a dishwasher, try a pound shop for the tablets.

dregs of paint ... as long as there's not a lot of ink (i.e. making an uneven area), it's only on the top of the screen & not actually in the parts you print, it's probably okay to leave it. i tend to prefer to clean straight away after printing just so i can only see one ink colour on the screen at any one time, less confusing that way. if you have to really scrub to get the ink out, there's always the possibility of losing a little bit of detail (say any very fine parts on the edge of the design) but once it's dry you can use screen filler & a small paintbrush to do touch-ups.

hope this helps. feel free to ask more questions. i'm not an expert by any means but i know a little bit.

Re: Diy screen printing help

thanks a lot mate. im really grateful someone has offered some advice. tonight is going to be round two with the new set up so i'll take some pics and if it fucks up again i might have some more questions! cheeeeeers.

"Have you paid your due's Jack?".........."Yes Sir, Cheque is in the mail"

My so called "Photography" - www.flickr.com/photos/trashman4130
Dead End Kids - art,books,zines,music and crud- www.deadendkidsuk.blogspot.com

Re: Diy screen printing help

another stoooopid question for you dude. Once the screen is exposed and youve washed out your design does the water "stop" the emulsion from continually exposing?seems odd but out of all the guides ive seen no one seems to mention what happens to the emulsion once the design has been washed out. Thanks again.

oh,id also love to hear about how you make the screens your self. How do you know the mesh count when buying the polyester? how do you attach it to the frame?x

"Have you paid your due's Jack?".........."Yes Sir, Cheque is in the mail"

My so called "Photography" - www.flickr.com/photos/trashman4130
Dead End Kids - art,books,zines,music and crud- www.deadendkidsuk.blogspot.com

Re: Diy screen printing help

Bump as I'm also curious about this!

Static Shock Records + Distro: http://www.staticshockrecords.com

Re: Diy screen printing help

I don't get it- you want to expose the remaining emulsion as long as possible afterwards, and it should be exposed enough to be water resistant before you put the water on it. I have been in a tight spot before experimenting with a new emulsion brand and exposure times, and underexposed it (i.e. the blacked-out area washed out in like 20 seconds), so I quickly turned off the water (in fear of washing out the exposed part too), then dried it off and put it back under the halogen lamp to expose the remaining emulsion, just to make sure it was water resistant.

On making you're own frames, just take four pieces of a softwood with approx 1"x1" cross section, obv saw them to size to make a frame, set them down on a flat surface in the frame shape, and staple every joint with carpenters staples and a staple gun. For a lot of my frames, that's it. Knock the staples in with a hammer. You can use a drill, long screws, and/or wood adhesive but most of the time it's unnecessary. Then cut a piece of polyester mesh just a couple of inches larger on each side than your new frame, lay it over the frame, then use your staple gun to fix it to the frame. I do this by putting one staple right in the middle of your longest side of the frame (stapling down the mesh), then pulling it super taut (careful not to tear yr mesh though) on the directly opposite side, and putting a staple there. Continue this method, moving first half an inch to the right of your original staple, then doing the opposite side (holding taut), then half an inch left of the first staple, then the opposite, etc, until the entirety of both sides are lined with staples. Then rotate frame 90 degrees and repeat the process o the shorter edge of your frame, starting in the middle.
When it's done, degrease your screen with bleach solution.
It's probably a good idea to sand/smoothen the internal edges and surfaces of your frame before applying mesh to make sure it doesn't snag.
As for knowing the mesh size, either buy it from a proper silk screen suppliers where they'll state it, and recommend the best for a particular application (finer meshes, i.e. higher mesh count ~70T + are best for printing on paper/ less absorbant surfaces, larger meshes, e,g. 43T best for fabric), where it'll be quite expensive, or just chance it with whatever suitable looking polyester material they have at your local market stall for much much cheaper. For DIY (non commercial) uses I doubt it's worth the difference, or you'd notice a hell of a lot of difference between mesh counts as there are other factors like squegee technique that dominate probably.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask. I'll upload a photo of my DIY super silk screening table later, under which I have screwed my halogen lamp.

Last edited by stateJon (08-02-2010 20:32:53)

Re: Diy screen printing help

thanks a lot statejon. some great bits of information there. Just had another crack. im certain that the reason for the screen fucking up before was down to exposure time. ive now got that sorted. having a bit of trouble with the actual printing part now hah. Im blaming my tools (yeah,yeah) the plastic squeegee you get with the screwball kit is a joke. ive been trying to do it standing up with the tee slid over a sheet of wood. having trouble keeping it all in the same place when applying pressure to the squeegee. i think tomorrow im going to do it on the floor and sit on the bastard so it cant move. fingers crossed.

For anyone else that is interested heres a couple of pics of how ive been trying to do it at home...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/trash4130/screenprinting003.jpg
the studio haha. This is how i expose my screens. with shoe laces a flood light (500w) from wilko's and a really shitty fan which i use to dry my screens in the dark. the hard part im finding at this stage is getting a nice even layer of photo emulsion on the screen before hand as im basically doing it in the dark..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/trash4130/screenprinting005.jpg
winter olympics,beer, ironing board and paint in my bedroom = shakey start.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/trash4130/screenprinting007.jpg
fucked up the 2nd attempt too but i quite like the results anyways. next try i will get it, next time im going to sit on the fucker so it doesnt move halfway through the squeegeeing process. quite a nice accidental print but this looks a little too "vintage" topshop faggery for me.

fingers crossed for tomorrows attempt.....hows yours coming out Tom??

"Have you paid your due's Jack?".........."Yes Sir, Cheque is in the mail"

My so called "Photography" - www.flickr.com/photos/trashman4130
Dead End Kids - art,books,zines,music and crud- www.deadendkidsuk.blogspot.com

Re: Diy screen printing help

That's an ace design on that shirt tho'! Can I buy one?

Re: Diy screen printing help

its a bootleg from a poster by the guys at print mafia that i cut up. if you want, i have a medium in a grey shirt you can have if you dont mind it being inside out and slightly faded(the print,the shirt has never been worn). i'll take a photo of it later if you like. Otherwise you can send me something to print it on. i wouldnt want to charge because i cant ggarentee it coming out as good as i think it will hah.

Last edited by trashman (22-02-2010 10:50:52)

"Have you paid your due's Jack?".........."Yes Sir, Cheque is in the mail"

My so called "Photography" - www.flickr.com/photos/trashman4130
Dead End Kids - art,books,zines,music and crud- www.deadendkidsuk.blogspot.com

Re: Diy screen printing help

I'm patiently waiting for my screen print stuff to arrive in the post, but before I fuck it up and end up posting here again : Is it possible to remove your fabric from its frame, re-use the frame with new fabric? Essentially just using  a single frame and swaping  out different designs if you want to do a reprint?

I know this is a) probably stupid and b) cheap as fuck but figured it may be worth an ask.

Re: Diy screen printing help

i wouldn't bother to be honest. if you know of somewhere to buy the fabric from id get yourself down to a pound shop and buy a "canvas" from them and use that as the frame once you've ripped the canvas part off.. i have a frame sitting here waiting but i just need to find somewhere local-ish that sells the material.

"Have you paid your due's Jack?".........."Yes Sir, Cheque is in the mail"

My so called "Photography" - www.flickr.com/photos/trashman4130
Dead End Kids - art,books,zines,music and crud- www.deadendkidsuk.blogspot.com

Re: Diy screen printing help

Ian, that's just not really going to work. Unless you put the initial cut out mesh into a smaller frame (where it'd fit and you'd be able to stretch it onto) but that kinda defeats the purpose.
Just leave the same mesh on there and use bleach/ emulsion-remover to "start again", then just burn the image in with new emulsion if you ever need it again. But you're probably better off making a few screens so that you can keep important ones.

Re: Diy screen printing help

Cheers guys.

18

Re: Diy screen printing help

hey, hope you dont mind me jumping on this, but i've printed diy for years and now have a studio set up and have learnt a lot through trial and error....

the canvas idea is the best for cheapness, buy some cheap canvasses, rip off the canvas bit and then staple mesh to the frame. you can get a usable mesh from fabric shops for about £2 ish a metre, if you just look for the finest looking polyester mesh thats not silky or metallicy or fancy, ive never had a problem getting it and i live in the back end of nowhere. its good for designs that dont have too much detail, like the design in the photo in this thread.  you only really need to get into mesh counts when you want to do paper printing or halftones, if its just DIY merch or bootlegs your doing then use cheap habidashery mesh. because its so cheap, i usually rip it off and remesh the screen instead of reclaiming it. best thing to do is have a couple of good screens with good mesh that you reclaim and a couple with crap mesh to just remesh each time. if you did want to reclaim it though you can get some household thick bleach, scrub it into both sides of the screen, leave it for about 15 minutes then blast it in the bathtub with hot water until its clear. when it comes to emulsions, i used to use speedball which i thought was great until i tried ulano which you can get on ebay - (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SCREEN-PRINTING-2 … 889wt_1165) which is amazing, and the exposure time with a 500watt halogen is about 3 mins 15 seconds, and the unexposed areas wash out easily with warm water. oh, and always make an exposure calculator when you are trying emulsion times out - its so deoendant on things like how high your lamp is, how big the screen is, what type of emulsion, lamp wattage etc... best thing to do is get a sheet of acetate and a sharpie, and write the numbers 1 - 10 in a list(for a 500watt lamp, it will take longer with a lower wattage - i used to use 100watt bulbs years ago and my exposure was like 1hr 25) and then draw some lines and dots and things near each number, then expose the calculator on a small screen, after one minute cover the number one with a black card, after two slide it up to cover the two, three cover three, etc etc until youve covered all but the last number then wash it out, and it will have a sort of gradient of whats stayed in and whats over exposed. use your numbers to gauge how long the best exposure time was, so if three washed out easily and kept a clear and good stencil then add on about 15 secs and go for 3.

this probably doesnt make much sense but if it does then awesome.

x

Re: Diy screen printing help

thanks a lot for contributing to the thread and the board! what a great first post!

"Have you paid your due's Jack?".........."Yes Sir, Cheque is in the mail"

My so called "Photography" - www.flickr.com/photos/trashman4130
Dead End Kids - art,books,zines,music and crud- www.deadendkidsuk.blogspot.com

Re: Diy screen printing help

Great tips - will probably save a load of time/error/waste , thankyou!

Re: Diy screen printing help

yo ian, i've started screen printing too!  we should compare notes some time.. if you're at the hammers show on friday, i'll show you my first attempt.

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Re: Diy screen printing help

I'm off on holiday on Friday, which sucks a lot, I really want to see come to Hammers!

Are we still allowed to be seen in public together now that your are "2010 WARWICK UNI BATTLE OF THE BANDS CHAMPION" ?

Re: Diy screen printing help

Nah, you can't, unless you are willing fellate my insatiable ego!

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24

Re: Diy screen printing help

ha thanks, if you need any more help just ask. i thought it was a bit of a geeky first post though...