101

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Damaged Records wrote:

Finally, take everything for what it is - a holiday. You are seeing the world for next to nothing. You may have to dip into your pocket occasionally for your smokes and a latte, but the privilege of being able to go on tour in the first place should be payment in itself.

absolute nail head connection

102

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Joe C wrote:
Damaged Records wrote:

Finally, take everything for what it is - a holiday. You are seeing the world for next to nothing. You may have to dip into your pocket occasionally for your smokes and a latte, but the privilege of being able to go on tour in the first place should be payment in itself.

absolute nail head connection

indeed. and crazy to think otherwise.

if you do think this isn't right then play different music. for different people. and then come back and say what a right old knees up you've had.

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

there's must a problem of language, sorry for being italian dudes. what a shame i don't speak english every day like you.
we did not complain a single time on this tour, we were all happy and had blast! england was great, all shows but a couple were great. we met awesome people, lots of sweethearts and each of us flew home with awesome memories. it was a 7 and a half week tour, incl. uk, france, spain, italy, czech republic, slovenia, switzerland, germany, belgium, the netherlands, denmark, norway, hungary and austria. flying to london was a bit cheaper so the tour started and ended there. i spoke to a good number of promoters and got to know a lot how about how they put on shows, their costlist and all the good and bad things about diy shows (if you're into this, you know what i'm talking about).  mainland, with the exception of switzerland and scandinavia, is generally cheaper than england. some countries have real expensive highway tolls (spain, france, italy, switzerland), some others don't (slovenia, austria, czech republic, hungary), though.
and you, british promoters, are not the only ones who have to hire venues, cook food and give bands a place to stay. a lot of promoters (me included) hire venues, pay copyrights, cook food / buy drinks or buyouts when they can't cook and often lose shitloads of money for diy shows. is that clear now?
a few, just a few venues in each country are subsidized, usually those with large capacities and diy promoters don't deal with them.
most diy promoters dig deep into their pockets to put on diy shows, whether this includes getting the venue for free or not, feeding the band with shitty food or not, giving bands free drinks or not,giving bands floorspace or beds, hotel rooms and including large breakfasts or just a cup of coffee.touring the uk is also very expensive due to the high prices of ferries.
tickets for a 6,6 m - 9 seat van with 6 people are usually not cheaper than £180-200 round trip.
so you need an extra show to cover that fucking hour and a half. add about 200 euro of daily costs + gas + a lot of  merchandise to pay + about $3000 of plane tickets. is that clearer now?
as you can see £200 were not even enough to make it day by day, but that's what i was asking. no highway tolls, short drives, people usually buy a lot of merch so fuck it, let's do it and so we did.
i tried to have a couple shows in scotland but it didn't work out and never asked 300, read your emails more carefully dude.ireland was financially out of reach and i didn't even try. too fucking bad.
we had good and bad shows. 43 out of 52 were financially ok. we slept in youth hostels as well as on ok / cold / dirty floors in squats and houses but we couldn't really care less.we were nice (i think) and thanked everybody cause we've been doing this for ages back home and know what it's about. after touring so many countries differences between england and mainland were evident.
i don't smoke, i don't drink much and basically live real cheap and so they (git some) do. but you all know how £10-15 a day on tour can make the difference..
and i started this new topic just to know the reasons why, that's all. was it too hard to understand? sorry if i sounded rude, shit happens.
however, this thread wasn't really meant to offend you, it was just to know more about these few but very important and relevant differences which were not so relevant to git some - america can be much worse at times - but a lot to me cause i hadn't toured england for so long before.nothing more and nothing less.
we (italians) say asking questions is cool and answering is even cooler.
so my question is..do you always treat / answer people so badly when they ask questions?
have a nice weekend

mike

104

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Mike - Persil Booking wrote:

tickets for a 6,6 m - 9 seat van with 6 people are usually not cheaper than £180-200 round trip.

And their lies your problem, if you book online and tell them the van is 6.5m you'll get cheaper rates. Above 6.5m and you're on freight rates. They never check length at Dover or Calais in my experience (I've lost count of how many times I've crossed the channel by ferry now). They'll check if you're doing hull-rotterdam/zeebrugge but never on the cross channel ferries.

You ought to be able to do dover calais for around 100quid these days if your careful with your booking, bear in mind that p&o will let you sail on any ferry 2 hours either side of your booked time without extra charge. So if you know what time you want to sail, it's always worth checking the prices of sailings before and after, then booking the cheapest one and turning up for the ferry you actually want to get.

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

so my question is..do you always treat / answer people so badly when they ask questions?

your initial question came across as rude and bullish, hence the responses you got.

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Whitehouse's rider requests are wayyyyyy better!!

don't PM me!
email: [email protected]

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Mike - Persil Booking wrote:

we (italians) say asking questions is cool and answering is even cooler.
so my question is..do you always treat / answer people so badly when they ask questions?
have a nice weekend

mike

michele, i reckon keep on pointing out the differences betweek italians and english people like you've been doing since your first post is not cool at all -neither for them, nor for us (as italians). there are lots of differences between england and italy or between england and the other european countries but it's just a matter of culture (i'm not strictly talking about treatment on tour).
you can like that or not but i don't think you can expect a different reaction if you write on a english messageboard sentences like: touring the uk is crappy because of the food, the treatment, the lack of beers etc, whilst touring the rest of europe is like being in heaven.
i also think you were in good faith when you raised the question (just because you opened the same thread on sceneboot asking people for the differences between italy and the rest of europe), but please,
just stop saying things like: we are like this and we do this whilst you dont, so we are better than you.



ps: i don't know in the rest of europe, but in italy it's not bed of roses. life is cheaper but people don't turn up at the shows, that means you don't get always your guarantee ( in most cases you have to deal for a low guarantee  in advance if you really want to book a tour), etc.

i know there's a lesson in there somewhere something nothing special 'bout boys who smell like salami and boys who've never apologized.

http://itsallaboutturningsouth.blogspot.com/

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

I agree with Mike. He was just making an observation and asking for our thoughts. It's not his initial post that was rude and bullish, it's a lot of the replies. Jeez, you guys....

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Amongst many other things what's irritating about this is hiding behind the "Oh I was only asking a question!" veneer. For one, in some posts Mike claims to already be well versed in all the intricacies and associated difficulties of putting on shows in Britain from talking to all the promoters from this recent tour, which would seem to negate the need for his original post unless (oh shit) he actually was being inflammatory.

And secondly you can't throw out a question which basically becomes rhetorical like "Why are all people from X such cunts?" (rhetorical in the sense that you've subsequently claimed to know the answer so it can't have been information that you sought) and then when the occupants of X become pissed off play the "It was just a question" card like the question wasn't heavily loaded to make some kind of point in the first place.

I've never put on a show, but it's fairly obvious from every reply on here that Persil Bookings has been torn a new one. I find it difficult to fathom what Mike hoped to achieve in starting this thread - and don't pretend it was discussion and polite debate because every post you've made has been like "Aw I'm not having a go man maybe this is a communication issue when you gave me shitty food and fucking cold floors and bullshit water and cunty replies and fuck you".

I missed Git Some on the tour, were they good?

"Give me a prejudice, and I will move the world"

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

gozzo wrote:
Mike - Persil Booking wrote:

tickets for a 6,6 m - 9 seat van with 6 people are usually not cheaper than £180-200 round trip.

And their lies your problem, if you book online and tell them the van is 6.5m you'll get cheaper rates. Above 6.5m and you're on freight rates. They never check length at Dover or Calais in my experience (I've lost count of how many times I've crossed the channel by ferry now). They'll check if you're doing hull-rotterdam/zeebrugge but never on the cross channel ferries.

You ought to be able to do dover calais for around 100quid these days if your careful with your booking, bear in mind that p&o will let you sail on any ferry 2 hours either side of your booked time without extra charge. So if you know what time you want to sail, it's always worth checking the prices of sailings before and after, then booking the cheapest one and turning up for the ferry you actually want to get.

thank you for the info gozzo!! :-)

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

craigcore wrote:

and things like "beds" for everyone the same. unless you're gunna kick your housemates out or buy blow ups from argos for £20 a pop! wishful thinking but in an ideal world it would happen!

If beds are really important, then maybe this Mike prick should use his thick headed skull and invest in some blow up beds for the bands on his future tours. Although then it would probably be down to the promoter to blow them up i suppose...

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

There is no language problem, there is an attitude problem. Unless of course "shitty food", "tiny cold flats" and "cost a fortune" are all quaint ways of saying Amo l'Inghilterra.

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

kind of.. cause i still love your shitty food, your tiny cold flats and your country in general. seriously, don't be too pissed off or offended, it's not worth. i'm probably too ambitious (i love treating bands well, is that a shame? can you blame for it? ) and sounded too arrogant, shame on me - sorry for that. right on, enjoy december, it's a nice month. mike

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

by the way, git some were awesome. they destroyed every place they played, so mission accomplished.
the massive lack of drugs experienced on the road was a major bummer but other than that, it was a rad tour.

115

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

DRIFT CATCHER 1998 wrote:

Whitehouse's rider requests are wayyyyyy better!!

what's on whitehouse's rider?

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

if everything was rad about the tour, why are you still complaining?

STFU!

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Mike - Persil Booking wrote:

i'm probably too ambitious (i love treating bands well, is that a shame? can you blame for it? )

After everything said in this thread... are you taking the piss now or something?

"My name is a killing word."

118

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Mike - Persil Booking wrote:

the massive lack of drugs experienced on the road was a major bummer...

good grief.

"the deadening futility of day-to-day life will be temporarily washed away in a flood of blessed and cleansing torment"

so what do vegans eat anyway?!

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

This just keeps getting better.

Continue!

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

i'm not complaining dude. i don't give a fuck about eating shitty food, sleeping on cold floor or getting paid less than elsewhere. i don't really give a fuck about it. i love touring, i would do it 365 days a year if i could.i thanked every single promoter i met over and over again. i tried to talk about the differences between uk and mainland and most of you took it way too personally. crazy, fucking crazy..

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

moore wrote:
Mike - Persil Booking wrote:

the massive lack of drugs experienced on the road was a major bummer...

good grief.

yeah, especially for those who need drugs more than their daily bread. but you know, it's only rocknroll and we like it..

122

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

whilst i don't really give a shit what anyone chooses to put in their bodies, i find it tedious when people bitch and whine about not being able to get drugs...
and especially so when it follows the 'issues' you brought up with this thread; surely if someones' priorities are intoxication ahead of nutrition then 'shitty food' would be absolutely irrelevant?

"the deadening futility of day-to-day life will be temporarily washed away in a flood of blessed and cleansing torment"

so what do vegans eat anyway?!

123

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

moore wrote:

whilst i don't really give a shit what anyone chooses to put in their bodies, i find it tedious when people bitch and whine about not being able to get drugs...
and especially so when it follows the 'issues' you brought up with this thread; surely if someones' priorities are intoxication ahead of nutrition then 'shitty food' would be absolutely irrelevant?

fuck this moore, we need to be concentrating on kingmob's seedy racehate ferry service. i wanna find THE TRUTH


or i may just get drunk and not really care

But the riff that was made from the base was the heavy, slowly, darkness, and bad feelings.

124

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

I think the important thing for the band and promoter to get what they want out of the gig is communication.

Whilst booking the gig, the promoter needs to be honest to the bands about what they can give and the bands need to be honest about what they want.

If the band aren't happy with what the promoter can offer, then they should say "thanks, but we'll ask someone else".
If the promoter isn't happy with/can't provide what the band want, then they shouldn't book the gig.


It baffles me when I hear about disputes between bands and promoters at gigs.
All this can be prevented with simple honesty in the first place.

125 (edited by Kierkegaard 14-12-2008 18:41:14)

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Mike - Persil Booking wrote:

i thanked every single promoter i met over and over again. i tried to talk about the differences between uk and mainland and most of you took it way too personally

"after spending 2 weeks on the road in England i thought a lot about the way most promoters treat bands and compared to the rest of Europe"

My emphasis added, because that's the important bit. You implied here that it is down to the promoters that bands in England get 'shitty' food, 'cold' accomodation and so on. But how can the promoters be responsible for the higher cost of 'good' food, or the fact that residential accomodation in England is vastly different to what it is on the continent? The only part of your "starting point" that has anything to do with the promoters is the fact that some of them didn't make you breakfast, and even then that's not taking into account the fact that eating habits in England are nowhere near the same as what they are on the continent. Also, I think you'd be dead from having your blood turn to lard if you had to eat 'full English breakfasts' every day for two weeks, so maybe these promoters were actually looking out for your welfare?

This has nothing to do with taking it personally; I'm not from England and couldn't care less about any national pride being affronted. And if you still feel that there's a language barrier then PM me and I'll happily continue this conversation in Italian.