201

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

heartnotafist wrote:

it probably shows in my attitude that  have never been on tour in a band.i guess the way i see (albeit naively i'm sure), is that if you're embarking on a 6 week diy tour, and are doing it because you think you'll make a bit of money, or see it as a holiday at other peoples expense then you're a bit of a cunt and don't quite see the irony.
it would be awesome if more bands could earn something for their toils but i'm sure no diy band is born with the idea of being a nice little side earner.i'd like to think that they had to.

then you haven't had the joy of driving x hundred miles, play to an empty room, be handed 20 quid while being told 'well, we didn't really promote the gig because we didn't want the 'wrong' people turning up - but WE had a blast!' That really restores your faith in DIY values.

if every DIY band is supposed to lose money on tour, then only bands than can afford to losemoney will tour, and DIY becomes the preserve of rich hobbyists. Not really the way it was supposed to be, was it? However, if the people in the infrastructure have their shit together then there is no reason why the DIY network can't be entirely self-sufficient.

And the bottom line for that is realistic door prices for touring bands, and fuck all the moaners, because they'll get used to it. Twenty years ago I paid £3.50 to see Youth of Today, Snuff and Jailcell Recipes (ah, those were the days), last month I paid £5 to see US touring band du jour and two supports. Price of a gallon of petrol in 1989: £1.74. Price of a gallon of petrol today: £4.08. By those calculations we should be paying £8-odd to get into gigs for touring bands. Because however you might feel aggrieved about bands 'expecting subsidised holidays', why the fuck should a touring band take a hit for a tankful of petrol because 'the kids' won't fork out an extra couple of quid each to be entertained?

You fill me with inertia ...

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

£8 would be a fair price to pay for a decent touring band, £5 is a bargain. but as ever, people are more concerned with blowing £20 on over-priced crappy booze...

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Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Andy Malcolm wrote:

£8 would be a fair price to pay for a decent touring band, £5 is a bargain. but as ever, people are more concerned with blowing £20 on over-priced crappy booze...

This is very frustrating. We have our first ever non-all dayer £6 gig coming up. I think our usual crowd is sensible enough to cope with it, though. The worst bit will probably be having enough pound coins to make all the change.

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Nothing pisses me off more than seeing a £3 gig when there's touring bands on the bill. If people will pay anything, then they will pay a fiver. Man the fuck up and charge accordingly.

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

It sucks when people get into a 4 quid gig, ignore the distro and blow it all on booze. I'd happily play £8 for a gig if it was the difference between the band having petrol money and the promoter breaking comfotably even or not.

a thug changes and love changes and best friends become strangers word up

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

davidd wrote:

It sucks when people get into a 4 quid gig, ignore the distro and blow it all on booze.

Why? Booze is much more enjoyable than some bloke's shitty records! I'm not even joking.

207 (edited by D 07-09-2009 16:55:42)

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Okay, so I'll admit I never really read this thread in the first place, at least not past the initial post. A lot of people know me as being stubbornly DIY and I believe that being 'nice' and reasonable (rather than a cunt) has served me well over the years I've been involved in doing DIY things (where it be putting on gigs or touring) I've met a lot of like-minded people and seriously, I thought I was as stubborn as it gets but I think I might be wrong..

Graeme/Kingmob has got in touch with me re: the upcoming tour one of my bands, Hammers, is due to do in November with  a US band called Black Elk - a tour that is booked by Mike Persil. Obviously his views on Mike are well documented within this thread and whereas I initially responded to Graeme through the medium in which he messaged me, now that he has been in touch with the promoter of the Glasgow gig on the Black Elk/Hammers tour - who is now considering dropping the gig - I felt that I should re-read the entire thread and see if all of this makes sense or justifies the backlash.

And here's the thing, I don't really think it does. I can understand it and I can appreciate the process behind the anger - Mike made a very naive post in what turned out to be crazily hostile territory (and he knows it) but I don't believe it makes Mike a cunt, or a parasite or that the bands he booked/books deserve to be boycotted because of y'know, the internet.

I met Mike on the Git Some tour. He got in touch with The Cost Of Living about playing the ill-fated Stockport matinée gig. I advised against it, he just wanted to hang out and play another show. Yeah, that show was pretty much us just playing to each other but everyone was nice, it was a most pleasant way to spend an afternoon and yeah, Mike was shocker.. a totally affable guy. I don't know how much of his posts in this thread have been edited (if at all..) but reading back, including the first post just comes across as being poorly put, rather than deliberately trying to say the UK is shit. I think a lot of the statements he made are.. well, true. He also listed a fairly extensive list of UK gig-putter-onners who we all know/respect and said they did a great job, but the general concensus seems to be to crucify the guy for, whether it be passive-aggressively or completely ignorantly, asking why the differences he experienced on his first tour of the UK were as they are.

When Hammers toured the mainland in June, we had a fucking ball. It's true, the smaller venues are comparably way better, you do get fed/watered more freely and some of the complexes in which we were lucky enough to sleep were full on mindblowing. I don't think he ever set out to say "UK DIY promoters are shit" and I think it's proper reactionary and to be honest, a bit embarassing to witness such hostility as if that is what he had said, but more "UK DIY promoters don't have the facilities to be like the mainland, any reason?" I can get behind the uneducated thought that we are not as giving, but when you look into it as he has done, he now knows/it is plain to see why things are different and how hard the genuinely DIY gig organisers in the UK work. He has a few bad gigs? Okay, shit happens and he'll have learned not to use those people again (DIY or not. I suspect not) and in future he'll book/he has booked his tours more carefully and considerately. As far as money goes.. well, it’s always a touchy subject but the bottom line is a booking agent, whether DIY or not, has a responsibility to the bands they are booking for. There is a DIY tour coming through the UK next month where the daily costs are 300 euros. That is a LOT for a DIY band but if that’s what the costs are and they are noted up front, then people know what to expect and to aim for. The 300 euro tour is booked by someone everyone knows and respects as being full on DIY, and I booked the UK dates. No guarantees but a financial understanding. I can see why some people booking tours ask for guarantees, but even when faced with a guarantee.. we have the choice whether or not to say yes or no to it. I tend to explain why I do things the way I do them and then explain how I’d run the gig and how the costs would be covered/exceeded through DIY means. If the agent is cool with it – sweet! I get to put on bands I want to! And if not, then.. well shit, some other fucking fool will do it. The booking agent is everyones favourite martyr, but as someone pointed out earlier in this thread I think, nobody is forcing anyone to work with people they don’t like or under condition they are not comfortable with. As NickC pointed out, communication and honesty are the way forward. If you don’t want to do a show for a band Mike has booked, okay cool. If you do, I’m sure you’ll meet a nice guy just trying to do the best for the bands he’s booking. I don’t even think that Nanouk or Marco at Avocado are cunts, I think they’re just dudes doing their jobs. Sure, I don’t agree with everything they do, but if I can deal with them on my own terms and I think it will benefit my town/’scene’/venue/people who go to gigs, then I won’t hesitate to work with them. They haven’t taken advantage of me, they’ve worked on a DIY level because that’s the only platform I wanted to deal on.

I've always believed in DIY to be a way of proving the corporate alternative wrong. A big fuck you in the face of 'business'. I do things the way I do because I know they are the better, more respectful way of doing things. If someone doesn't know the answer to a question or doesn't know the difference between a DIY method and a non-DIY method then I will explain the difference. If they change their mind/ways then that to me, is DIY in effect. The most poignant form of rebellion/protest in a creative environment. I don't see how any of the shit dished out in Mike's direction in this thread has been constructive or respectful and I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd just brushed off the UK as 'full of holier than thou DIY dickheads' but no, he's learned, he's read this thread I bet dozens of times and from the more recent conversations I had with him when he was booking the Black Elk/Hammers tour, he took on board my reservations about routes/costs and was more than keen for things to be done right. He approached Hammers about doing a few gigs (and then the tour) because he dug the band and I think if people are going to boycott Black Elk (or Hammers for that fact) then moreso for the former, it's their loss. Your hostility has contributed to another band, another tour booker and whoever they tell the story to, thinking that the UK DIY scene is an unbreakable, unwelcoming clique.

I realise that all of this will probably alienate me/my bands from certain people and I think that’d be a shame. I’ve always loved coming to Glasgow/Edinburgh especially, not just because they are both lovely cities, but moreso you guys are all people I consider close and selfless friends and I enjoy being around. You have never been anything but incredible in every encounter, be it on tour or with a band or just socially. But, and this is depending on if Hammers are even together come November, I don’t want to not play a bunch of gigs because of a disagreement on the internet with someone I’ve met and found to be a perfectly nice guy or not to play with a great US band who, by all e-mails accounts, seem to be nice guys and who are excited about coming to the UK, or even further-so to not tour and spend time with my band. I’d rather be involved in the process and spend more time understanding what the issues are/if they are really things I should take offence to, than to put my hands over my ears and be defiant against an issue that I don’t think is deserving of such anger or resistance.

This made sense kind-of, right? Am I a parasitic cunt?

[img]http://hometown.aol.co.uk/GodsPaper/outofhardcore.gif[/img]

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

i see where you're coming from, dan. the only thing i'd say is it struck me as somewhat disappointing, regarding that lazy afternoon in stockport, that as you say, mike did seem like a thoroughly affable chap, then reading the thread later, i had to wonder, while being all smiles to our (our being 'the UK' if that makes sense) faces, if he was thinking 'what a bunch of losers' all the while.... it's not like people didn't go out of their way to help him/the tour. am i wrong? i very much hope so.

settle down

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

D wrote:

Okay, so I'll admit I never really read this thread in the first place, at least not past the initial post. A lot of people know me as being stubbornly DIY and I believe that being 'nice' and reasonable (rather than a cunt) has served me well over the years I've been involved in doing DIY things (where it be putting on gigs or touring) I've met a lot of like-minded people and seriously, I thought I was as stubborn as it gets but I think I might be wrong..

Graeme/Kingmob has got in touch with me re: the upcoming tour one of my bands, Hammers, is due to do in November with  a US band called Black Elk - a tour that is booked by Mike Persil. Obviously his views on Mike are well documented within this thread and whereas I initially responded to Graeme through the medium in which he messaged me, now that he has been in touch with the promoter of the Glasgow gig on the Black Elk/Hammers tour - who is now considering dropping the gig - I felt that I should re-read the entire thread and see if all of this makes sense or justifies the backlash.

And here's the thing, I don't really think it does. I can understand it and I can appreciate the process behind the anger - Mike made a very naive post in what turned out to be crazily hostile territory (and he knows it) but I don't believe it makes Mike a cunt, or a parasite or that the bands he booked/books deserve to be boycotted because of y'know, the internet.

I met Mike on the Git Some tour. He got in touch with The Cost Of Living about playing the ill-fated Stockport matinée gig. I advised against it, he just wanted to hang out and play another show. Yeah, that show was pretty much us just playing to each other but everyone was nice, it was a most pleasant way to spend an afternoon and yeah, Mike was shocker.. a totally affable guy. I don't know how much of his posts in this thread have been edited (if at all..) but reading back, including the first post just comes across as being poorly put, rather than deliberately trying to say the UK is shit. I think a lot of the statements he made are.. well, true. He also listed a fairly extensive list of UK gig-putter-onners who we all know/respect and said they did a great job, but the general concensus seems to be to crucify the guy for, whether it be passive-aggressively or completely ignorantly, asking why the differences he experienced on his first tour of the UK were as they are.

When Hammers toured the mainland in June, we had a fucking ball. It's true, the smaller venues are comparably way better, you do get fed/watered more freely and some of the complexes in which we were lucky enough to sleep were full on mindblowing. I don't think he ever set out to say "UK DIY promoters are shit" and I think it's proper reactionary and to be honest, a bit embarassing to witness such hostility as if that is what he had said, but more "UK DIY promoters don't have the facilities to be like the mainland, any reason?" I can get behind the uneducated thought that we are not as giving, but when you look into it as he has done, he now knows/it is plain to see why things are different and how hard the genuinely DIY gig organisers in the UK work. He has a few bad gigs? Okay, shit happens and he'll have learned not to use those people again (DIY or not. I suspect not) and in future he'll book/he has booked his tours more carefully and considerately. As far as money goes.. well, it’s always a touchy subject but the bottom line is a booking agent, whether DIY or not, has a responsibility to the bands they are booking for. There is a DIY tour coming through the UK next month where the daily costs are 300 euros. That is a LOT for a DIY band but if that’s what the costs are and they are noted up front, then people know what to expect and to aim for. The 300 euro tour is booked by someone everyone knows and respects as being full on DIY, and I booked the UK dates. No guarantees but a financial understanding. I can see why some people booking tours ask for guarantees, but even when faced with a guarantee.. we have the choice whether or not to say yes or no to it. I tend to explain why I do things the way I do them and then explain how I’d run the gig and how the costs would be covered/exceeded through DIY means. If the agent is cool with it – sweet! I get to put on bands I want to! And if not, then.. well shit, some other fucking fool will do it. The booking agent is everyones favourite martyr, but as someone pointed out earlier in this thread I think, nobody is forcing anyone to work with people they don’t like or under condition they are not comfortable with. As NickC pointed out, communication and honesty are the way forward. If you don’t want to do a show for a band Mike has booked, okay cool. If you do, I’m sure you’ll meet a nice guy just trying to do the best for the bands he’s booking. I don’t even think that Nanouk or Marco at Avocado are cunts, I think they’re just dudes doing their jobs. Sure, I don’t agree with everything they do, but if I can deal with them on my own terms and I think it will benefit my town/’scene’/venue/people who go to gigs, then I won’t hesitate to work with them. They haven’t taken advantage of me, they’ve worked on a DIY level because that’s the only platform I wanted to deal on.

I've always believed in DIY to be a way of proving the corporate alternative wrong. A big fuck you in the face of 'business'. I do things the way I do because I know they are the better, more respectful way of doing things. If someone doesn't know the answer to a question or doesn't know the difference between a DIY method and a non-DIY method then I will explain the difference. If they change their mind/ways then that to me, is DIY in effect. The most poignant form of rebellion/protest in a creative environment. I don't see how any of the shit dished out in Mike's direction in this thread has been constructive or respectful and I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd just brushed off the UK as 'full of holier than thou DIY dickheads' but no, he's learned, he's read this thread I bet dozens of times and from the more recent conversations I had with him when he was booking the Black Elk/Hammers tour, he took on board my reservations about routes/costs and was more than keen for things to be done right. He approached Hammers about doing a few gigs (and then the tour) because he dug the band and I think if people are going to boycott Black Elk (or Hammers for that fact) then moreso for the former, it's their loss. Your hostility has contributed to another band, another tour booker and whoever they tell the story to, thinking that the UK DIY scene is an unbreakable, unwelcoming clique.

I realise that all of this will probably alienate me/my bands from certain people and I think that’d be a shame. I’ve always loved coming to Glasgow/Edinburgh especially, not just because they are both lovely cities, but moreso you guys are all people I consider close and selfless friends and I enjoy being around. You have never been anything but incredible in every encounter, be it on tour or with a band or just socially. But, and this is depending on if Hammers are even together come November, I don’t want to not play a bunch of gigs because of a disagreement on the internet with someone I’ve met and found to be a perfectly nice guy or not to play with a great US band who, by all e-mails accounts, seem to be nice guys and who are excited about coming to the UK, or even further-so to not tour and spend time with my band. I’d rather be involved in the process and spend more time understanding what the issues are/if they are really things I should take offence to, than to put my hands over my ears and be defiant against an issue that I don’t think is deserving of such anger or resistance.

This made sense kind-of, right? Am I a parasitic cunt?

Finally, someone talking some fucking sense in this thread. I agree.

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

backed x 2

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

scott of the antarctic wrote:

i see where you're coming from, dan. the only thing i'd say is it struck me as somewhat disappointing, regarding that lazy afternoon in stockport, that as you say, mike did seem like a thoroughly affable chap, then reading the thread later, i had to wonder, while being all smiles to our (our being 'the UK' if that makes sense) faces, if he was thinking 'what a bunch of losers' all the while.... it's not like people didn't go out of their way to help him/the tour. am i wrong? i very much hope so.

I stayed with Mike when i was in italy last summer, dude totally went out of his way to drive me around, take me to the airport, feed us and give us couch to sleep on despite me having never met the dude in anything other than email. So yeah, totally affable / selfless guy, in my opinion.

And further to that, as i said earlier in the thread, the Git Some tour was what, 20 dates in the UK? Mikes more recent tours have been less than 10 days, so obviously lessons have been learnt there, i've not booked a show from him since the tour, so can't comment on anything more than that.

Nevermind whats been selling...ROIDH

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

kngen wrote:

if every DIY band is supposed to lose money on tour, then only bands than can afford to losemoney will tour, and DIY becomes the preserve of rich hobbyists. Not really the way it was supposed to be, was it? However, if the people in the infrastructure have their shit together then there is no reason why the DIY network can't be entirely self-sufficient.


all i was trying to say was that if you embark on a diy tour with an EXPECTATION of making money, or living as if you're earning a wage then you're short sighted.DIY is too unpredictable, even if people do have their shit together.factors such as other bands playing that night/week, the weather, big sports/arts events can affect turn out to shows massively and is nobody's fault.

Your point about the price of shows is something i agree with entirely.people will spend tens of pounds on OOP records/rare shirts on ebay but when it comes to spending £7 on a show, folk will turn up their nose.makes no sense to me

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Andy GI wrote:
scott of the antarctic wrote:

i see where you're coming from, dan. the only thing i'd say is it struck me as somewhat disappointing, regarding that lazy afternoon in stockport, that as you say, mike did seem like a thoroughly affable chap, then reading the thread later, i had to wonder, while being all smiles to our (our being 'the UK' if that makes sense) faces, if he was thinking 'what a bunch of losers' all the while.... it's not like people didn't go out of their way to help him/the tour. am i wrong? i very much hope so.

I stayed with Mike when i was in italy last summer, dude totally went out of his way to drive me around, take me to the airport, feed us and give us couch to sleep on despite me having never met the dude in anything other than email. So yeah, totally affable / selfless guy, in my opinion.

And further to that, as i said earlier in the thread, the Git Some tour was what, 20 dates in the UK? Mikes more recent tours have been less than 10 days, so obviously lessons have been learnt there, i've not booked a show from him since the tour, so can't comment on anything more than that.

andy, thank you for the kind words. glad you had a great time here. git some played 16 shows in the uk - due to their arrival & departure place being fucking London fucking Heathrow - and most of them were fun. that was almost a year ago and many things happen and change in a year. yeah, lessons were learnt!

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

heartnotafist wrote:
kngen wrote:

if every DIY band is supposed to lose money on tour, then only bands than can afford to losemoney will tour, and DIY becomes the preserve of rich hobbyists. Not really the way it was supposed to be, was it? However, if the people in the infrastructure have their shit together then there is no reason why the DIY network can't be entirely self-sufficient.


all i was trying to say was that if you embark on a diy tour with an EXPECTATION of making money, or living as if you're earning a wage then you're short sighted.DIY is too unpredictable, even if people do have their shit together.factors such as other bands playing that night/week, the weather, big sports/arts events can affect turn out to shows massively and is nobody's fault.

Your point about the price of shows is something i agree with entirely.people will spend tens of pounds on OOP records/rare shirts on ebay but when it comes to spending £7 on a show, folk will turn up their nose.makes no sense to me


no one (git some) embarked on that 7 and a half week tour with the expectation of making money. they did it because they love touring - they're relentless touring machines, 2 of them were in planes mistaken for stars, ever heard of that band? - and had a brand new awesome record to promote and i agreed on booking the tour cause i liked them a lot and wanted to tour. everything, again, was 100% diy and worked fine except for some bad luck on the way.  anyway, shit happens..everyone knows it. not a big deal..

i totally agree with diy being too unpredictable, but as long as you have your daily expenses covered, possibly a decent meal (you can cook the best dinner with the cheapest ingredients, if you don't believe me i can teach you how to cook :-) and possibly a decent accomodation (matrasses, layers of blankets, couches, beds..not hardwoord floors 7 days a week) you can tour 365 days a year and have a blast. i mean, there's not a diy standard way of treating bands on tour but if you know what touring is about you also know what bands need. right?

van and backline rentals don't give a shit if you had 5 days off in, 6 double shows, lost a fortune or made a bunch of cash. you have bills to pay at the end and sometimes upfront deposit to deal with. gas is pretty expensive as well. ferry tickets, work permits... touring isn't like playing cards with friends or drinking a pint and way too many people don't know anything about it.

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

scott of the antarctic wrote:

i see where you're coming from, dan. the only thing i'd say is it struck me as somewhat disappointing, regarding that lazy afternoon in stockport, that as you say, mike did seem like a thoroughly affable chap, then reading the thread later, i had to wonder, while being all smiles to our (our being 'the UK' if that makes sense) faces, if he was thinking 'what a bunch of losers' all the while.... it's not like people didn't go out of their way to help him/the tour. am i wrong? i very much hope so.

hey, that lazy sunday afternoon in stockport was awesome! we had a free bowl of sausages, met some real nice dudes (the cost of living) and sold a bunch of merch to a "few" locals. leeds, which was only 45 min away, was a blast. lots of cool bands, awesome venue, shitloads of merch, friendly people, YOUNG LIVERS and blablablabla...i wasn't thinking anything that day, i was just (negatively) impressed by how different the uk and the mailand were and damn sorry to the guys for such a miserable show...that was the first lesson learnt!!

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

same thing in stoke on trent. no promotion, no one at the show (a doordeal with 20 fucking quid)shitty - UNHEALTHY FOOD - etc.... know what git some said? don't worry mike, we played worst shows than this. and fuck it, we played stoke on trent, the city where lemmy and slash were born!

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

what's wrong with unhealthy food? healthy food in this country is expensive.

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Andy Malcolm wrote:

what's wrong with unhealthy food? healthy food in this country is expensive.

Plus healthy food tastes like shit.

Be polite
In the pyramid you hate

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

exactly!

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Mike why don't you stop digging your hole. Initially i had some sympathy with you but you just keep going on and on.
Unhealthy food! Boo fucking hoo.
Hard floors! sorry pal i don't have 5 spare beds in my small house - shall i buy a bigger place?
Seems like the band didn't mind so maybe you're just bitter cos you booked a tour with too many dates for a band no one knows over here?
I think you should maybe just leave it now.

221

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

you speak of stoke on trent without a mention of DISCHARGE?



unacceptable

fuck off

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

sned wrote:

you speak of stoke on trent without a mention of DISCHARGE?



unacceptable


sorry. wasn't meant to hurt you...

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Andy Malcolm wrote:

what's wrong with unhealthy food? healthy food in this country is expensive.

smoked-ham toasts fried in butter with french fries. ahaha, how much is a kg of pasta + a can of tomato sauce and some bread  in a ldl, penny market or a aldi supermarket in the uk? come on..

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Mike - Persil Booking wrote:
Andy Malcolm wrote:

what's wrong with unhealthy food? healthy food in this country is expensive.

smoked-ham toasts fried in butter with french fries.

i wish i could go on tour sad

Re: England vs EUROPE. different ways of treating bands on tour

Zandor wrote:

Mike why don't you stop digging your hole. Initially i had some sympathy with you but you just keep going on and on.
Unhealthy food! Boo fucking hoo.
Hard floors! sorry pal i don't have 5 spare beds in my small house - shall i buy a bigger place?
Seems like the band didn't mind so maybe you're just bitter cos you booked a tour with too many dates for a band no one knows over here?
I think you should maybe just leave it now.

digging my hole? zandor, why don't you just shut the fuck up? unhealthy food, exactly. barely edible by people who are everything but picky. kinda like meat when you say vegetarian food etc..believe it or not. never heard of americans complaining about food. i did it for the first time in the uk, it was funny and weird at the same time. it was like spitting in the face of all those promoters who spend a fortune out of their pockets and hours cooking good food for bands and generally do their very best to make them have a great time miles from home.

dude, i'd feel shitty if had a people staying at my place and let them crash on the floor with nothing to lay on. i'd rather have them sleep on my bed, couch..anything and go somewhere else or even sleep on the floor than see them there uncomfortable. don't be an idiot, you don't have to buy 5 spare beds, kick your roomates out or buy a bigger place..you can do everything being 100% diy and without spending a fucking pound and i don't really have to teach you how to do it.
i think it's up to everyone's conscience especially when nothing is stricly required. i call it HOSPITALITY, got it? maybe you should just cross the channel, get out the island more often and be more open minded, just a tiny bit.

they didn't mind cause they're awesome dudes and used to tour a lot - in the states - where you often get no food, drinks and sleep on the floor. but that's the USA not EUROPE, got it??

the feeling of satisfaction, joy and accomplishment when you see someone from abroad (a band from the states for example) being bloody thankful for your show, hospitality, great time and whatsover is PRICELESS. you know what i mean, right?